Reversal of Fortune

EVE Online

A Hybrid of Ideas


The topic of skill attributes and clone upgrade costs has surfaced again. I took some of the ideas people have suggested and along with my own twist, put together a couple things:

  • Clone upgrade costs is 100% removed from the game. No more having to open up the Medical facility and going through the process of updating your clone. Now the player, no matter how long they have been playing, can decide how much they risk.
  • Being podded adds fatigue to the new Jump Fatigue mechanic. This maintains the current urge to save your pod. The degree of fatigue is of course left to balancing by CCP.
  • Attributes are completely removed from the game including attribute implants. Skills train the same as they are now, but now there is no need to be restricted to training a certain group once a year. With the attribute implants gone there is also no need to skip out on glorious combat due them.

I’m curious what your thoughts are. Leave a comment here or any other EVE related forum.


12 thoughts on “A Hybrid of Ideas

  1. No on being podded adding to the jump fatigue. You can have all the “urge” you want to get your pod out but when your pod is bubbled you aren’t going anywhere. Therefore it’s more a punishment for engaging in pvp that can hurt your ability to jump a capital.

  2. 1) So basically no clone upgrades required anymore? Fine

    2) Why don’t we wait and see how the overall fatigue deal works before extending it.

    3) So without implants and attributes, what SP/hour are we talking for training time?

  3. Had a couple questions and couple thoughts.

    First on the clone upgrade cost does this leave in place the required clone upgrade after podding or loose SP mechanic? Would you also be in favor of the medical clone(just one no need for alpha – omega grades) just saving all but t3 sp loss, with no need to choose between levels of clone at all?

    Personally i’d like to remove the need to upgrade medical clone at all if we are going to remove costs, your clone should just keep up with you and only thing you have to remember is to assign it to the station you are basing out of/in.

    I love the idea of removing attributes, something i have said before on twitter a couple of times. I think it would put more focus for implants on the actual pirate bonuses, and hardwires. Maybe get empire bonus implants too. Would you suggest that SP trains at current max attainable?

    • There would be no skill point loss or need to ‘upgrade’ a clone after being podded. As you said, you simply wake up where your medical clone was set. As far as the amount of skill points per hour trained I don’t know. CCP would know for sure, but I imagine most players focus all their training time on skills that their attributes are geared towards. While it sounds like ‘meaningful choices’ at first, it really is just a level of complexity for the sake of complexity. I don’t think many enjoy having to plan out a years worth of specific skills due to their current attribute setup. The skill point gain can be a pool of points that constantly accumulates and the player spends them on skills like what has been done in other games. Either way is fine with me.

  4. I would prefer attributes and related implants were left in the game. I like the choice it gives players, both in balancing what level of benefit they get against the risk of losing them, and in how they might structure their training to maximise the skill points learnt.

    I am less enamoured by the clone upgrade / replacement costs. You can fly into danger in an empty clone if you want, but you can’t mitigate the flat cost of replacing it if podded. If it isn’t a noteworthy and required ISK sink for the game, I’d be happy to see it replaced with some other sort of consequence.

    • The balancing part sounds great for the implants and once a year remap, but what happens is those players with learning implants simply do not risk them at all. They just stay in high sec. No risk outside of a suicide gank. So in a way learning implants encourage players to not take a risk in PvP. It sounds like there is choices being made, but the reality is they are picking no risk every time. If they don’t have clone upgrade costs to worry about and no learning implants either, then the odds of them hopping in a frigate and stepping into the deep end skyrockets dramatically.

      • I disagree with your logic.

        If someone wants to PVP – they do. They might be put off by implant costs, but they get a collection of Jump Clones and do whatever they need to PVP.

        If someone says they do not PVP because they prefer staying in their +5 clone, then what they are really saying is that they do not want to PVP. Removing that issue means they will just find the next excuse.

        It won’t change the way most people play the game.

        In my experience the most effective way of turning a pure carebear into a regular PVP participant is ready access to a good FC. Someone who leads them well, and gives them enough win’s that they are ok with the inevitable losses.

  5. How big an isk sink are you taking out of the game by removing clones/implants? Perhaps you might as well completely remove insurance to counter this (this would also balance out the cost associated with pvp).

    Removing learning implants is fine but then I’d like the current slot 6-10 implants upgraded in price and redistributed to occupy slot 1-5 as well.

    I am in favor of retaining clone costs and not in favor of podding adding jump fatigue. After getting podded I might want to clone jump to return to the fight.

  6. I find the remapping mechanic incredibly frustrating and would love to see it go. Removing learning implants is a good idea, too, as they just unnecessarily make people more risk averse.

    Skill training speed would need to be adapted after those changes, though. I think training all skills at about 2400-2450 SP/h would be appropriate. That’s significantly less than a perfect remap with +5 Implants and roughly at the level of a semi optimal remap (i.e, a universal per/int remap) with +4 implants.

  7. TBH I have a few characters whose main priority is skill training at optimized attributes and +5 implants. The possibility of temporarily jump cloning to an empty clone in the same station, for a short welp excursion isn’t so bad, but the thought of permanently forgoing optimized training is out of the question. Eveboard ranking thing. If everyone accumulated SP at the same rate, then the eveboard rank race would not be a concern.

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